Comments on: Raven: Building Java with Ruby http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/ If I only knew what this is about... Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:28:35 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Brent http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-2804 Brent Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:15:26 +0000 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-2804 I hate to rain on anyone's parade, and so I won't. What I will say is that I think people frustrated with Maven (especially 2) often argue the same point. It is simpler to script it (I'm a coder darn it - get out of my way). However, it seems that this argument is made out of ignorance of what Maven was designed for. Maven was created to factor out the scripting that people were doing. Yes, it is simpler for you to do your dinky task, but not for someone else to do your task (or understand it). By 'building a build', you have created two projects out of one - one is the real project and one is the build. Maven works very well within parameters it was defined under - if you are writing tons of XML, you might be trying to use Maven for something it wasn't intended for. In my experience, I found that most of the problems I was having was in understanding the 'Whys' rather than the 'Hows'. When I finally figured those out I kicked myself. I was trying to do what the tool was meant to prevent. The tool is meant to solve aggregate software issues. If you are running one or two projects, you probably don't feel compelled to use this tool over one that allows you to directly code up your build (after all it is easier to understand conceptually). However, once you code for a while and have created 100s of projects that share dependencies and should share code, but don't, or you have 100s of build scripts with varying setups and levels of quality, you'll probably look for a tool like Maven. I hate to rain on anyone’s parade, and so I won’t. What I will say is that I think people frustrated with Maven (especially 2) often argue the same point. It is simpler to script it (I’m a coder darn it – get out of my way). However, it seems that this argument is made out of ignorance of what Maven was designed for. Maven was created to factor out the scripting that people were doing. Yes, it is simpler for you to do your dinky task, but not for someone else to do your task (or understand it). By ‘building a build’, you have created two projects out of one – one is the real project and one is the build. Maven works very well within parameters it was defined under – if you are writing tons of XML, you might be trying to use Maven for something it wasn’t intended for. In my experience, I found that most of the problems I was having was in understanding the ‘Whys’ rather than the ‘Hows’. When I finally figured those out I kicked myself. I was trying to do what the tool was meant to prevent.

The tool is meant to solve aggregate software issues. If you are running one or two projects, you probably don’t feel compelled to use this tool over one that allows you to directly code up your build (after all it is easier to understand conceptually). However, once you code for a while and have created 100s of projects that share dependencies and should share code, but don’t, or you have 100s of build scripts with varying setups and levels of quality, you’ll probably look for a tool like Maven.

]]> By: danoxlade http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-2647 danoxlade Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:20:29 +0000 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-2647 i get an error on os-x tiger when i do raven import: Not a directory - /Users/danoxlade/.maven/repository/.DS_Store (Errno::ENOTDIR) how can i fix this? i get an error on os-x tiger when i do raven import:

Not a directory – /Users/danoxlade/.maven/repository/.DS_Store (Errno::ENOTDIR)

how can i fix this?

]]> By: mult.ifario.us : Maven and Rakes in the Grass http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-199 mult.ifario.us : Maven and Rakes in the Grass Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:35:50 +0000 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-199 [...] do like where Matthieu is headed with raven or Russel Winder is headed with gant, but I'd really like the two together: non-XML [...] [...] do like where Matthieu is headed with raven or Russel Winder is headed with gant, but I’d really like the two together: non-XML [...]

]]> By: Raven 1.1: Building More Java with Ruby « Skunk Works http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-14 Raven 1.1: Building More Java with Ruby « Skunk Works Fri, 03 Nov 2006 16:17:49 +0000 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-14 [...] Neat? Then you can easily write your Rake script to use these dependencies and build your java project using Raven’s java tasks. See my previous post about this. [...] [...] Neat? Then you can easily write your Rake script to use these dependencies and build your java project using Raven’s java tasks. See my previous post about this. [...]

]]> By: Andres Almiray http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-8 Andres Almiray Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:41:01 +0000 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-8 Matthieu, I know what you mean, I used maven1.x for almost 2 years and "loved" scripting it with jelly. Now with Maven2.x that is no longer possible. I recently needed an Ant build and used Maven2 for dependency management and site building, it felt good but a lot of XML was needed, I think I now know why you started Raven. Perhaps my first reaction was visceral "Why Ruby if we have Groovy?", but then why not create Graven to go along with Rails/Grails and spread happiness in both communities ? (ok, getting back to earth...) Good luck with Raven! Matthieu,
I know what you mean, I used maven1.x for almost 2 years and “loved” scripting it with jelly. Now with Maven2.x that is no longer possible. I recently needed an Ant build and used Maven2 for dependency management and site building, it felt good but a lot of XML was needed, I think I now know why you started Raven.

Perhaps my first reaction was visceral “Why Ruby if we have Groovy?”, but then why not create Graven to go along with Rails/Grails and spread happiness in both communities ? (ok, getting back to earth…)

Good luck with Raven!

]]> By: Labnotes » Rounded Corners - 32 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-7 Labnotes » Rounded Corners - 32 Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:41:26 +0000 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-7 [...] Get out of Jail, collect $50. Building simple projects with Maven 2.0 is simple. Building anything bigger than trivial requires pompous XML files where ten lines of code accomplish one simple task. If you’re lucky. The less fortunate have to create another project to build a plug-in they can use to build their existing project, and invent more XML grammars along the way. Then there’s the Maven Uncertainty Principle: some builds will work some of the time. So let’s trying something different. Matthieu is working on a build system for Java in Ruby, using rake and gems. Give it a try, let’s see if we can bring simplicity back to the Java world. [...] [...] Get out of Jail, collect $50. Building simple projects with Maven 2.0 is simple. Building anything bigger than trivial requires pompous XML files where ten lines of code accomplish one simple task. If you’re lucky. The less fortunate have to create another project to build a plug-in they can use to build their existing project, and invent more XML grammars along the way. Then there’s the Maven Uncertainty Principle: some builds will work some of the time. So let’s trying something different. Matthieu is working on a build system for Java in Ruby, using rake and gems. Give it a try, let’s see if we can bring simplicity back to the Java world. [...]

]]> By: mriou http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-6 mriou Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:54:15 +0000 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-6 Andres, Sorry for the late reply, I've been quite busy recently. So yes, the first reason is XML hate or more precisely XML being painfully awkward when it comes to building things. The second reason is that neither Ant nor Maven provide you an easy way to script your build. And my opinion about building is that it's all about scripting, Finally I wouldn't describe Raven as Ant with dependency management. You need to check out Gem and Rake a bit more, you'll see that these tools are far more powerful than it appears. Andres,

Sorry for the late reply, I’ve been quite busy recently. So yes, the first reason is XML hate or more precisely XML being painfully awkward when it comes to building things.

The second reason is that neither Ant nor Maven provide you an easy way to script your build. And my opinion about building is that it’s all about scripting,

Finally I wouldn’t describe Raven as Ant with dependency management. You need to check out Gem and Rake a bit more, you’ll see that these tools are far more powerful than it appears.

]]> By: Andres Almiray http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-5 Andres Almiray Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:11:34 +0000 http://mriou.wordpress.com/2006/09/21/raven-building-java-with-ruby/#comment-5 Hmmm, what is the point of turning a maven build into ruby code? xml hate? This looks like ant with dependency management, you need to describe each step of the build. Hmmm, what is the point of turning a maven build into ruby code? xml hate?

This looks like ant with dependency management, you need to describe each step of the build.

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